ALL THAT'S HOLY BLUE COLLAR PODCAST
episode 92: Oscar talk
A belated happy new year. We’re finally showing up here.
As the year begins, we look at the upcoming Super Bowl, and will be focusing on the Academy Awards.
And just because Craig was feeling nostalgic, the transition music is all from Five Iron Frenzy’s musical search for Reese Roper’s pants.
And, as we recognize Lent is coming soon, we are looking for suggested acronyms for Lent. We try out a few and are looking for some more! Send us your LENTen acronyms!
episode 91: a rising christmastide, Tom Joad & spilled milk
After getting it figured out what time of the year it is (year’s end - Gregorian calendar, year’s beginning - lectionary calendar), we agree it is Christmastide.
Odd word, “Christmastide”, but as of this recording, it is the 4th Day of Christmas, so the Christmas tide is still rising.
(Apologies to Botticelli’s Nativitiy, thanks PhotoShop Generative Fill AI)
As always we begin with random talk about bagels and smoothly segue into hefty theological discussions and conversations about lists. This is the season of lists. The best of the year, the worst of the year, and more. We look at some of those often overlooked lists.
Here are some links for what we discussed:
Worst Things to Spill in Your Car
And the inventor of auto-tune, Dr Andy Hildebrand
episode 90: deconstructed macaroons & theology of sport
Cody and Craig discussed the process of deconstructing theological assumptions by thinking about coconut macaroons, letting go of beliefs that are no longer true or beneficial, and the potential for reconstructing beliefs to align with a deeper truth.
We’ve been using Sesh.com (Dear Sesh, sponsorship?) to guide our conversations. It’s a great app that can work with Zoom. By providing a shareable agenda, with timers, meetings can stay on topic and on time. As an added bonus, we’ve been using the “ice-breaker” feature, which poses random questions, to begin and end our conversations.
The conversation also covered a range of other topics including, sports as panentheistic (big word warning: we go against our own motto about not using big words), Christmas celebrations beyond Christmas Day, and experiences at various gourmet restaurants.
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episode 89: guadete needs party poppers
Zoom AI Companion has been helping to write up the summaries of our conversations. So here’s what Zoom said, in part, edited (a little) for accuracy (sort of).
Cody and craig discussed a variety of topics, including the new control interface, their podcast which covers a range of topics, household chores, and the societal assumptions about gender roles in household chores. They also engaged in a theological conversation about the historical context of Jesus, the Christmas story, and the concept of Jesus as a nonviolent resistor. They touched on the historical and mythical elements of the Christmas story, the financial and sporting implications of a high-profile player's transfer, their finances and future plans, music, making fruitcake, and casual conversations about classic Christmas movies and action figures.
We also spent some time trying to pronounce the Latin term for the third Sunday of Advent, gaudete. In the process of learning about the Latin word, it was learned that this is expressive joy, not the kind “down in my heart.” The third Sunday of Advent needs party poppers!
It’s pretty close. Here are a few of the links to things that were discussed:
NCAA Volleyball tournament: https://www.ncaa.com/brackets/volleyball-women/d1/2023
Shohei Ohtani’s payout: https://theathletic.com/5126812/2023/12/11/shohei-ohtani-contract-10-numbers-dodgers/?source=user-shared-article
ActionAid Sweden and the Christmas Goats: https://youtu.be/ELvsokKcydM?si=VE7dMZPr6y9lP0qG
Fruitcake, by the Superions: https://open.spotify.com/track/2KsftzifufXI5ukgcfis77?si=3b826cbf58364e60
Wet Bandits, by The Home Alones: https://open.spotify.com/track/12XnacmXLpsZFE1yn84XDS?si=ca5fa6b06ddd4226
And, especially since it is chilly outside here in North America, support us through Patreon so we can have a warm cup of tea or coffee.
episode 88: Advent themes and volleyball
As we open up, we’re watching the new captioning tools on Zoom and noticing a few errors, or might they be more correct than we know? To quote Zoom captions: “profound things will be sad…”
Craig and Cody talked about sports, with a focus on volleyball and hockey, and a look at the ranking of sports based on player salaries. Cody talked about Advent music, focusing largely on nontraditional (i.e. not in hymnals) songs.
Follow the NCAA Volleyball tournament at:
Where to watch: https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/38992406/how-watch-2023-ncaa-women-volleyball-championship-espn
Find the bracket: https://www.ncaa.com/brackets/volleyball-women/d1/2023
The Hound + The Fox – What Child is This/Child of the Poor
Dave Bazan – I Heard the Bells on Christmas Day
Alana Levandoski – First Advent
Starting off, though, continuing the conversation about theological assumptions, Cody and Craig talked about the proper order of themes for Advent. Here are some possible themes:
What is the proper order of Advent themes and why?
a. Joy, Peace, Love, Hope
b. Hope, Justice, Peace, Joy
c. Peace, Peace, Peace, Peace
d. Faith, Hope, Joy, Love, Light
e. Prophecy, Promise, Fulfillment, Faith
f. Signs, Saviors, Serpents, Song
g. Waiting, Preparing, Singing, Laboring
h. wear, wash, rinse, repeat
What do you think would be the best?
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episode 87: how do you play cricket?
(photo credit: Yogendra Singh on Unsplash)
We continue talking about the nature of assumptions we carry in our theology, with a slight nod to James Fowler’s stages of faith. What would your present theological understanding say to your 20-yr old theological self? What makes it change? Fowler noted that there are some folks who don’t get beyond their early faith, and then live on with assumptions that resist maturing. Here’s a little cheat-sheet on Fowler’s ideas: https://www.ngumc.org/files/fileslibrary/james+fowlers+stages+of+faith.pdf
Popular Sports
Craig quizzes Cody’s sports knowledge on the popularity of global sports. And together, we realize we have no idea how cricket works! Let us know. We’re willing to learn. https://aeonledlighting.com/2023/07/top-world-sports/
Make-up or Break-up Church Edition?
We took off on a tangent conversation about a segment on a local pop music radio station. One Boise’s, 102.7, the hosts do a recurring segment on the Joey and Loren Show, called, “Make-Up or Break-Up.” After listening to a portion of a recent broadcast, we wonder if we should start a church version of make-up or break-up. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/joey-and-lauren-in-the-morning/id1481402629
Let us know if you have been a part of some weird church visits, or have not gone back, or you have witnessed some bad church “first-dates.”
Patreon Support
Support Cody and Craig and their emerging podcast media empire at patreon.com/craigdmorton https://www.patreon.com/craigdmorton
episode 86: semitics, assumptions, & fast cars
(photo credit: Matt Seymour on Unsplash)
After walking down memory lane and thinking about favorite holiday traditions of the past, Cody and Craig move into some more difficult topics.
What is “Semitic”?
As pastors, how do we talk about, or pray, and lead our congregations to think about the news emerging from Gaza and Israel. Craig talks about going way back to the children of Noah and opening up the notion of “Semitic” culture and language to begin think about what a more pro-Semitic conversation might be.
A source for conversation was an article from National Archives which sets some of the history in a longer context. 1917, 1922 League of Nations, 1948 Provisional de-facto recognition of state of Israel: https://www.archives.gov/milestone-documents/press-release-announcing-us-recognition-of-israel
Continuing With Theological Assumptions
Craig and Cody try to define the idea of a theological assumption. Cody describes his recent sermon which has some tricky interpretive ideas when speaking about God’s ability to forgive. More to come on the assumption front.
Patreon – go to for our developing Missionplace Media. Support will go for this podcast as well as other podcasts, blogs, and research.
Wanna go to Vegas?
Las Vegas grand prix discount tickets, https://www.8newsnow.com/sports/vegas-full-throttle/f1-tickets-on-steep-discount-buzz-building-on-las-vegas-prices/
What’s the best thing you’ve heard recently? Another “Fast Car”
Not knowing something about a topic has never stopped us before, so we talk about country music. The Country Music Award for best single to Tracy Chapman and Luke Combs. Listening to Fast Car, brings back memories and still feels fresh.
Listen to Tracy Chapman at: https://youtu.be/AIOAlaACuv4?si=yBQk9VZNxndl_Kl0
Luke Combs at: https://youtu.be/Fr7oYjnt3bM?si=iRsFus-bU1qdGTEP
Follow us and join the conversation at https://www.facebook.com/allthatsholy/
episode 85: sportswashing and theological assumptions
Craig and Cody had a wide-ranging discussion covering technology, New Year's resolutions, theological assumptions, sports ethics, and popular TV shows. They also touched on racial issues in sports and the issues around 'sportswashing', responsible gambling.
Regarding theological assumptions, we would love to hear your ideas. To get your mind wrapped around this theme, we played a portion of Gungor’s song, God is Not a White Man. The song goes on to describe a lot of ideas that get attached to conceptions of God. Give it a listen. Does it make you think of other assumptions. Tell about those assumptions through our Facebook page.
Cody and Craig spent time with having a “commercial” and explaining the new and upcoming resources being developed. Check it out and sign on to become a Patreon supporter. In the future, we will create some merch that will be available. We will be letting you know more about this soon.
episode 84: Crawling Out of Summer Hibernation?
Cody and Craig resume their award-winning podcast (what awards, you ask?) after several months. And just for nostalgia, we go back to the 2018 introduction with Tom Joad telling what he’s been thinking about.
We also play around a little with some new artificial intelligence tools to help summarize our conversation.
Here is what the A.I. brain said we discussed…
The meeting so far has discussed the existence of an amateur athletic association and its impact on the community. They also talked about the post-pandemic situation in churches and how different congregations have been affected. There was mention of a possible sociological study on churches post-Covid. The conversation then shifted to the meticulous record-keeping practices of certain denominations. The meeting concluded with a discussion on education and the exhaustion felt by the congregation. No specific action items were mentioned in the transcript.
episode 83: Sarah Agustine and the Land is Not Empty
Sarah Augustine Episode 83
Cody and I have been on break for a while. Summer means a different pace of work, family time, and travel. We both had church conferences, and other work-related activities. And there were delays because of health issues as well.
We spoke with Sarah Augustine earlier this Spring about her work as an advocate for indigenous people’s justice in the USA and in Suriname. Sarah is a descendant of the Tewa people, also known as the Pueblo, and lives among the Yakima nation in central Washington.
Sarah has become a familiar voice representing indigenous people through her writing and speaking. Take time to note the number of ways to keep up with Sarah’s writing a speaking, noted at the bottom of this page.
One of the major themes the indigenous people have had to resist is the Christian Nationalist policies emerging from terra nulius. In it various expressions, it has treated indigenous people as mere raw materials on the land; as a part of the land to be exploited (Bureau of Indian Affairs is a subsection of the Department of the Interior, for instance). Terra nulius has justified land theft, kidnapping, killing and domination, and the removal of children from the homes of the birth to be educated in church-based boarding schools. These experiences, established in the age of discovery, instituted, and maintained by the church, demonstrate what Christian Nationalism looks like, and that it is not hypothetical. We’ve been here before.
Sarah Augustine’s author page at Anabaptist World : https://anabaptistworld.org/author/sarah-augustine/ and at MennoMedia https://www.mennomedia.org/author/sarah-augustine/
The Land is Not Empty: Following Jesus in Dismantling the Doctrine of Discovery, by Sarah Augustine at Herald Press https://heraldpress.com/9781513808291/the-land-is-not-empty/
episode 83: Sarah Agustine and the Land is Not Empty
Sarah Augustine Episode 83
Cody and I have been on break for a while. Summer means a different pace of work, family time, and travel. We both had church conferences, and other work-related activities. And there were delays because of health issues as well.
We spoke with Sarah Augustine earlier this Spring about her work as an advocate for indigenous people’s justice in the USA and in Suriname. Sarah is a descendant of the Tewa people, also known as the Pueblo, and lives among the Yakima nation in central Washington.
Sarah has become a familiar voice representing indigenous people through her writing and speaking. Take time to note the number of ways to keep up with Sarah’s writing a speaking, noted at the bottom of this page.
One of the major themes the indigenous people have had to resist is the Christian Nationalist policies emerging from terra nulius. In it various expressions, it has treated indigenous people as mere raw materials on the land; as a part of the land to be exploited (Bureau of Indian Affairs is a subsection of the Department of the Interior, for instance). Terra nulius has justified land theft, kidnapping, killing and domination, and the removal of children from the homes of the birth to be educated in church-based boarding schools. These experiences, established in the age of discovery, instituted, and maintained by the church, demonstrate what Christian Nationalism looks like, and that it is not hypothetical. We’ve been here before.
Sarah Augustine’s author page at Anabaptist World : https://anabaptistworld.org/author/sarah-augustine/ and at MennoMedia https://www.mennomedia.org/author/sarah-augustine/
The Land is Not Empty: Following Jesus in Dismantling the Doctrine of Discovery, by Sarah Augustine at Herald Press https://heraldpress.com/9781513808291/the-land-is-not-empty/
episode 81: Colin Saxton, Quakers, & theocracy
Episode 81: Colin Saxton
Cody and Craig catch up with each other discussing sports, life, and God.
Regarding the ongoing conversations around the movements of White Christian Nationalism. Recently, Craig was invited to speak with a congregation to introduce the challenges of Christian Nationalism. One of the hardest things is to introduce the topic, define terms, pose the theological and biblical challenges, and create a call to faithfully following Jesus – all in 20 minutes for a worship service.
This week, we have a conversation with Colin Saxton, Quaker, writer, and stewardship theologian. Colin has been a pastor, a superintendent (a denominational executive), and a missional leader serving churches in the USA and encouraging Friends’ ministries globally. Or, as he describes himself, “Colin Saxton is Quaker minister, husband, father, grandfather, and novice follower of Jesus.”
Together, Craig and Colin discuss how even those traditions (Craig’s Mennonite church, and Colin’s Friends meetings) can be lured into Christian Nationalism. Additionally, we spend some time discussing the experience of early Quakers in colonial America and execution of the “Boston Martyrs,” by the Massachusetts Bay Colony. From 1659-1661, the theocratic colony executed Marmaduke Stephenson, William Robinson, Mary Dyer, and William Leddra for their alternative beliefs.
This history exemplifies one of the false promises of “Christian” nationalism, that is, who’s definition of Christian will become the official orthodoxy. In a small way, the experience of the Boston Martyrs is a prequel, or a forecast, of Margaret Atwood’s Handmaid’s Tale.
Follow Colin Saxton at: https://walkingintheway.blog/ and on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/colinb.saxton
Our transition music this week comes from Idaho’s own, Paul Revere and the Raiders rendition of, Eve of Destruction.
episode 80: Angela Denker, pastoring among red state christians, part 2
Episode 80 Angela Denker, Part 2
Continuation the conversation with Angela Denker
Just a reminder, it isn’t too late to hear more from these scholars and writers we’re been talking with over the past few months. Drew Strait (episodes 77 and 78) will be hosting a seminar leading voices in studying and describing Christian Nationalism through the Associated Mennonite Biblical Seminary. Follow this link to learn more: https://youtu.be/EIeORYinedo
1 Qrt
Teddy Wilson from Radical Reports (https://radicalreports.substack.com/)
ANNIKA BROCKSCHMIDT & THOMAS LECAQUE at Religion Dispatches
“Fascists need martyrs—they need blood to sanctify the ground they walk on, and to call for even more sacrifice from supporters. Trump hasn’t explicitly spoken of “Blutzeugen” yet, of “blood witnesses,” as the Nazis called their “martyrs,” or of a “baptism of blood,” as Hitler and his cronies called the Nazis regarding their failed coup of 1923. But he doesn’t have to at this point to make the parallel more obvious—because Ashli Babbitt has long become a martyr of the movement, as Jeff Sharlet has shown, as have the still-living insurrectionists behind bars (who can, conveniently, still record propaganda songs).”
Paul D. Miller The Religion of American Greatness: What’s wrong with Christian Nationalism,
“Being an evangelical [religiously understood] does not lead one to enthusiastically support border walls with Mexico, favoring Christian nationalism does. Being an evangelical does not seem to sour Americans’ attitudes toward stronger gun control legislation; endorsing Christian nationalism does. Being an evangelical was not an important predictor of which Americans voted for Donald Trump in 2016; supporting Christian nationalism was.”
“Nationalism is the belief that humanity is divisible into mutually distinct, internally coherent cultural groups defined by shared traits like ethnicity, language, religion, or culture; that these groups should each have their own governments; that one of the purposes of government is to promote and protect a nation’s cultural identity; and that sovereign nations with strong cultures provide meaning and purpose for human beings.”
2-3 Qrt Part 2 with Angela Denker
Transition music Mars, by Sleeping at Last on Spotify
4th Qrt
We talk about little bit about sports, especially the breakthrough tournament for the Women’s NCAA tournament. For more information about women’s sports, and women’s perspectives on sports in general, listen to The Gist of It Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/the-gist-of-it/id1496908555
episode 79: Angela Denker Pastoring among Red State Christians, Part 1
First Quarter:
The governmental imposition of religion, and religion’s happy acceptance:
Lerone Martin’s new book, The Gospel of J. Edgar Hoover
Weaponizing Jesus: Prince Of Peace? Christian Nationalists Push Jesus As Military Leader
Who is Policing the Military: The Coup & The Military-Christian Nationalist Industrial Complex
The Military Religious Freedom Foundation, check out their archives for all the projects they continue to report and work on.
Second and Third Quarter – Conversation with Angela Denker part 1. Author of Red State Christians: A Journey into White Christian Nationalism and the Wreckage It Leaves Behind
Angela is a multi-talented creative person, being an athlete, a sports journalist, an ordained Lutheran pastor (ELCA), a writer, and also (now) a substitute teacher. Angela now lives in Minneapolis with her husband and children. Previously, Angela served a Lutheran parish in one of the most maga-friendly parts of the country in Orange County, California.
Visit Angela Denker’s writings and substack at:
https://www.angeladenker.com/ and at I’m Listening on Substack
Transition music by Fields and Fortresses, Freedom has a Sound
Fourth Quarter:
March Madness
Spring plans
Upcoming Seminar:
Hang out with some of our podcast friends at the Resisting Christian Nationalism with the Gospel of Peace seminar at Anabaptist Mennonite Biblical Seminary. An online short course taught by Drew Strait. Dates: April 12 – May 9, 2023. Early registration deadline: March 22, 2023. Final registration deadline April 5, 2023
episode 78: Drew Strait and the Political Idolatry of Christian Nationalism, Pt 2
First Quarter – Order, Freedom, and Violence the big three of Christian Nationalism (Perry and Gorski, The Flag and the Cross)
Additional Information
Institutions of CN propaganda:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claremont_Institute
https://americanmind.org/salvo/why-the-claremont-institute-is-not-conservative-and-you-shouldnt-be-either/ “Let’s be blunt. The United States has become two nations occupying the same country. When pressed, or in private, many would now agree. Fewer are willing to take the next step and accept that most people living in the United States today—certainly more than half—are not Americans in any meaningful sense of the term…They do not believe in, live by, or even like the principles, traditions, and ideals that until recently defined America as a nation and as a people. It is not obvious what we should call these citizen-aliens, these non-American Americans; but they are something else…. Authentic Americans are men, not gerbils—or robots…If you are a zombie or a human rodent who wants a shadow-life of timid conformity, then put away this essay and go memorize the poetry of Amanda Gorman. Real men and women who love honor and beauty, keep reading. Authentic Americans still want to have decent lives.”
Hillsdale College and the 1776 Report an unveiled response to the 1619 Project. Horrible lack of peer review! Lack of citation evidence
Second and Third Quarter – Drew Strait, part 2
episide 77: Drew Strait and the Poilitcal Idolatry of Christian Nationalism, Pt 1
First Quarter
Christian Nationalism and the Perfect Storm
Some of the resources mentioned:
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/groups?f%5B0%5D=field_ideology%3A183
Marcia Pally, Twitter @marcia_pally author of White Evangelicals and Right-Wing PopulismPRRI: Understanding the Threat of White Christian Nationalism
Samuel Perry and Andrew Whitehead, Taking America Back for God: Christian Nationalism in the United States
Robert Putnam, Bowling Alone: Revised and Updated: The Collapse and Revival of American Community
Second and Third Quarter
Dr. Drew Strait, Twitter: @DrewStrait Assistant Professor of New Testament and Christian Origins at Anabaptist Mennonite Theological Seminary.
“The church is behind the ball in constructing resistance and developing strategic peacebuilding.”
“Whiteness is the gravitational center of Christian nationalism.”
“I’m not primarily coming at this to save democracy…but to re-inscribe the church with the life a teachings of Jesus, and to recognize and acknowledge that white Christian nationalism is the greatest threat to the church’s public witness.”
Drew presents a solid three-part theological working definition of Christian nationalism:
“A movement wherein theological imagination is co-opted by state power…where a ethno-racial identity becomes more important than one’s baptismal identity in Christ; a view that sees militarized kingdoms of this world rather the unarmed multicultural church as the primary context for bearing witness to Jesus and the kingdom of God, it is a perversion of Jesus’ way of peace that ends up endorsing state violence, police brutality, and personal armament as expressions of Christian discipleship.”
Fourth Quarter
We banter about revival for the perspective of a sarcastic Lutheran (Nadia Bolz Weber) and a poet (Jessica Ice), while also taking time to consider shut-put world records (Ryan Crouser) and the Banshees of Inisherin. Wow! We can diversify.
episode 76: Pamela Cooper-White, part 2, bridging the divide
Episode 76: Pamela Cooper-White, part two
Like a football game, or a basketball game, we’re trying to outline our podcast into four quarter. After checking in with each other, we begin by continuing our conversation from the last episode regarding Christian Nationalism. There are numerous resources mentioned in this conversation, especially scholars who are producing new research on Christian nationalism. Notably, these scholars represent the fields of politics, history, and social science. There is information below abut how to follow them. Also, some key quotes from some of their amazing work.
In the second and third quarters, we hear the second half of Craig’s conversation with Dr. Pamela Cooper-White.
By the time we get to the fourth quarter, the hot topics have cooled and we do our muddled review of the Super Bowl.
Our next episodes in this series will be with Drew Strait, Assistant Professor of New Testament and Christian Origins at the Anabaptist Mennonite Theological Seminary.
Key scholars to follow and their Twitter handles
Samuel Perry @profsamperry
Philip Gorski @GorskiPhilip
Kristen Du Mez @kkdumez
Kathleen Belew @kathleen_belew
Andrew Whitehead @ndrewwhitehead
Bradley Onishi @BradleyOnishi
Matthew Taylor @TaylorMatthewD
Jamar Tisby @JemarTisby
Angela Denker @angela_denker
Jamar Tisby’s definition: “White Christian Nationalism is an ethnocultural ideology that uses Christian symbolism to create a permission structure for the acquisition of political power and social control.”
Stephen Wolfe: a recent manifesto written as a defense and a directive for White Christian Nationalism. The Gospel Coalition provided a helpful review of Wolfe’s book in which these Wolfe quotes were noted.
Christian nationalism is, “a totality of national action, consisting of civil laws and social customs, conducted by a Christian nation as a Christian nation, in order to procure for itself both earthly and heavenly good in Christ.” For example:
Wolfe says a mark of nationalism is that “each people group has a right to be for itself” (118), and that “no nation (properly conceived) is composed of two or more ethnicities” (135), and that our “instinct to conduct everyday life among similar people is natural, and being natural, it is for your good” (142), and that “to exclude an out-group is to recognize a universal good for man” (145), and that “spiritual unity is inadequate for formal ecclesial unity” (200), and that “the most suitable condition for a group of people to successfully pursue the complete good is one of cultural similarity” (201).
Whitehead and Perry: speak of CN as “Christianity co-opted in the service of ethno-national power and separation” and “Christian nationalism is a cultural framework–a collection of myths, traditions, symbols, narratives, and value systems–that idealizes and advocates a fusion of Christianity with American civil life”” (Taking America Back for God)
Key categories of types of people: Accommodators and Ambassadors were both characterized as being “supportive” of “Christian nationalism” while Resisters and Rejecters “opposed” Christian nationalism.
Also see the latest research from PRRI https://www.prri.org/research/a-christian-nation-understanding-the-threat-of-christian-nationalism-to-american-democracy-and-culture/
Kathleen Belew, Bring the War Home,
“White power should be recognized as something broader than the Klan, encompassing a wider range of ideologies and operating simultaneously in public and underground. Such an understanding is vital lest we erroneously equate white power with covert violence and thereby ignore its significant inroads into mainstream society, which hardly came under cover of night.”
Code words: Mating calls, Dog Whistles, Triggers (Samuel Perry)
Music played in this episode is from Thrice, A Better Bridge, and Jackie DeShannon, What the World Needs Now
episode 75: responding to christian nationalism with Pamela Cooper-White
In this episode we begin our series on describing a pastoral response to Christian nationalism. We also learn from scholar, Dr Pamela Cooper-White and her work at helping to bridge and create meaningful conversations with those who are Christian nationalists.
The conversation with Dr. Cooper-White comes in around 20-25 minutes in. Previous to our conversation, Cody and Craig begin to establish some understanding about this contemporary movement and some of the reasons it is on our radar.
Pamela Cooper-White is the Christine Brooks Johnson Professor of Psychology and Religion at Union Theological Seminary in New York. Dr Cooper-White is also a certified clinical fellow in the American Association of Pastoral Counselors. In her book, The Psychology of Christian Nationalism: Why People are Drawn In and How to Talk Across the Divide, from Fortress Press.
Dr. Cooper-White provides cultural background, a psychological frame of reference, and key practices to work at building empathetic and meaning relationships with those who think differently, sometime very differently, than we do.
In the first part of this conversation, Dr Cooper-White provides the trends and social developments, and the group psychology that has led to the emergence of the current expression of Christian nationalism. In the next episode, we will continue the conversation and look at the practices the will help people to “talk across the divide.”
Also, we spend a bit of time making Super Bowl predictions on certain aspects of the game that are often overlooked.
Let us know what you think. As we continue to talk about Christian nationalism, are there ideas or questions you have? Respond to us on Twitter @allthatsholy, or on Facebook.
Music this week was from, A Better Bridge, by Thrice, and can be found on our developing Spotify playlist, called No SWAJ (SWAJ refers to the notion of a straight white American Jesus). Or, you can find it on Youtube.
Make sure to review us on Apple podcasts with a positive review. If you have something negative to say, just send it to us - or maybe just to Cody.
episode 74: long hiatus ending
Cody and Craig are back. This episode is a preview of some of the topics we are looking to jump into as 2023 moves along. We will be a bit more organized, maybe. One can hope!
We are pursuing two different series. We’ve never really carried out a series before, so this might not only be a challenge for us, but for you, our listeners.
We continue to speak from a shared theological framework of open and relational theology, aka ORT. We have conducted interviews with Johnathan Foster and Bruce Epperly and will be adding more conversations regarding ORT as we build the series on this theological framework.
The other series is seeking to develop resources to respond to the growth of Christian nationalism. We have had conversations with Pamela Cooper-White, Drew Strait, and Angela Denker to workout what is a pastoral response to Christian nationalism.
For now, we just have ourselves to talk to in this episode so you can reacquaint yourselves with what we sound like.
We also included some music from our new Spotify playlist, No SWAJ (link below):
Anti-Flag: Victory or Death: https://youtu.be/bWVAVTUcxUc
Spinifex Gum: Locked up: https://youtu.be/imWGnlzLPiU
Make sure to review us on Apple podcasts with a positive review. If you have something negative to say, just send it to us - or maybe just to Cody. Also, follow us on Twitter @allthatsholy. Also, Craig is creating his playlist to resist Christian nationalism on Spotify, called No SWAJ (SWAJ refers to the notion of a straight white American Jesus)
episode 73: Immortal, Visible? God only Wise
In this conversation Craig gets to visit with Dr. Brittany Wilson, Associate Professor of New Testament at Duke University Divinity School about her book, Embodying God: Seeing the Divine in Luke-Acts and the Early Church, and the different ways that ways we can be enabled to consider the presence of God. One of the things that this book creates is a little bit of a tension with the classic hymn, Immortal, Invisible, God Only Wise. Rather we end up finding that God is not always so invisible. Luke uses the Hebrew tradition as well as the way he carefully chooses the Greek language to describe the presence of Jesus in the Gospel of Luke and the way Jesus maintains his presence through the Holy Spirit in the Book of Acts.
Along the way we pick up other ideas of how this book, and the ideas presented in it, can be helpful in congregational settings. We get a bit curious about whether or not the concept of God’s embodiment plays out in charismatic churches. And conclude with a bit of conversation about the Durham Bulls minor League Baseball team.
You can follow Professor Brittany Wilson's work at her faculty page at Duke divinity school: https://divinity.duke.edu/faculty/brittany-e-wilson